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If You Take Suboxone, Are You Considered Clean and Sober?

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  • If You Take Suboxone, Are You Considered Clean and Sober?

    If you take Suboxone to help with cravings are you considered to be clean? Or is this just a crutch?

  • #2
    If you take insulin to treat your diabetes - if you take levadopa for your Parkinson's - if you take sertraline for your depression. Addiction is a medical/physiological disorder, cravings are a symptom of that. WIth disorders where there are no cure, treating the symptoms allows the person to function at a level impossible without them.
    If you are not using your "drug of choice" - if you are working bettering yourself, leaving the lying & thieving & manipulating & ANYTHING for the next high behind you - if you are becoming the son/daughter/husband/wife/father/mother/person those who love you knew was hiding inside you - if your life is no longer consumed by the endless cycle we all know all too well & you're functioning as a part of your family & society as a whole, then yes, you're "clean."
    Medications are a TOOL that might or might not be used as part of our recovery (Lord knows, we need a pretty well-equipped toolbox to deal with this kind of repair) - along with retraining our brains through therapy or participation in a program/support group. Yes, it may be a crutch, but someone with a broken foot sure needs one.

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    • #3
      Thank you for your response to my question. Honestly your answer is the best explanation I have received since I started on this path with medication and working a recovery program.

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      • #4
        I'm really glad I was able to help - and really sorry you even had to ask the question. It shouldn't be an issue with those of us in recovery. If anyone else should have our backs, should understand - it should be someone else whose lived in that same, deep, dark hole (sigh). I'm REALLY happy you found this forum. The folks here will celebrate every step you take on that road to recovery with you - show you the kind of love & support & encouragement we all need. Take some time to look at the posts William & the others have written on the subject of MAT (medication assisted therapy) & some of the controversy surrounding it. You'll see exactly what I mean when I say these folks definitely have your back :-)
        How is the medication working for you? Are you involved in a program or working with a therapist or something like that? How long have you been in recovery? Things going good with family? LOL - I'm just full of questions - you get used to me after awhile :-)
        I've got 27+ years, but work as an advocate for folks with addictive disorder & other mental illnesses, so it keeps me pretty grounded in reality that I'm always just one weak moment away from falling back into the pit. I also passed my genes on to my eldest son, who I lost to an overdose in December of 2014. I'm also a chronic pain patient, so am using buprenephrine myself for pain management, which has given me an up close & personal introduction to the stigma attached to it (as in, the sudden change of attitude from my pharmacist - but that's another story for another day).
        I just wanted to welcome you to community & say again, I'm really glad you found us - even gladder you're this side of recovery. Stay strong!

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        • #5
          Blind I just want to say that is by far the best DAMN response I have seen in a while Anthony Hi Manders here let me tell you a little bit about something, opinions are like assholes pardon this bluntness but I kinda feel
          the need to address this and I will be writing an article right now pertaining to this issue. How do you feel about the treatment that you are using? Do you feel as if you are jumping out of your skin? Are you paranoid? (Okay bad
          example because I am a crazy ass and always paranoid) *smiles* This journey is yours okay you are a soldier in a war. People are going to be judgemental all the time but guess what you can't make anyone happy until you find
          happiness for yourself and then you can be your own advocate because it is not important what tools we use to recover the important part is that we did Can I get a HELL YEAH?

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          • #6
            Anthony,

            ​Welcome to our heroin addiction and recovery discussion forum. As you can see. this community supports medicine assisted treatment for heroin addiction which includes methadone, Suboxone and Naltrexone (Vivitrol and ReVia). Some other websites and/or Facebook pages however, do not. We do not believe choosing and utilizing a medication as directed by a physician is "replacing one addiction for another" and we don't buy into the false and misleading statement "There is no chemical solution for a spiritual problem". We support the disease model of addiction and as a result,, diseases sometimes require medical treatment. Now that doesn't mean that medicine is the ONLY treatment for addiction and not everyone needs it. But it is a valuable tool for some people and those who utilize it should not be shamed. We do not allow shaming others on this community as others sometimes do. We believe that whatever you've chosen that takes you away from chasing the high and a possible overdose and death is a step in the right direction.

            ​I encourage you to start another topic to introduce yourself and share an account of your full drug addiction and recovery story.

            Keep up the great work!

            William
            Publisher of Kill the Heroin Epidemic Nationwide™, Heroin News and the National Alliance of Addiction Treatment Centers.

            Find a Prescreened Addiction Treatment Center & Drug Rehab Facility

            Visit our Heroin Addiction & Recovery Blog for daily articles.

            I do my best to educate myself regarding addiction and recovery related issue, treatment options, etc. however, I am not a medical professional. All opinions are my own and any advice you take from me is at your own risk and discretion

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi everyone. I'm Paul and I've been a Heroin addict for about 20 years. My addiction to opiates started out with pain pills. When doctors started cutting everyone off of pain pills I turned to Heroin. It was easier to get and cheaper. Thats when all hell broke loose. I wound up going to Prison 5 different times due to my addiction. I'm out off all my trouble now after 20 years. I've tried drug rehab, half-way houses. Outpatient treatment, 12 step meetings........ Suboxone has by far helped me the most. Downfall is Everytime try to get off of the Subs I go back to Heroin. So I guess I need to stay on Subs to abstain from Heroin. It's been my best success.

              Comment


              • sissybrat
                sissybrat commented
                Editing a comment
                Paul your story is so familiar to my sons except he has not been a heroin addict for 20 years. He didn't even start drugs until he had injuries from motocross racings. Was hospitalized 3 times and got on oxycodone for the pain. Well the story goes on the same got cut off and doctor wouldn't refill by this time addicted to them. Stayed on pills as long as he could afford them on the street. 80 bucks a pop.
                so someone introduced him to heroin. Must cheaper, similar high, easier to get and story goes on.
                He started out smoking it or however they do it with the tin foil and black line down it. I was oblivious to the fact he was even doing it. Thought he as still on the pills. Then my older son told me he was doing it and I didn't believe him. Did not know what to look for as only knew the signs of meth addiction from my other son. I was in denial for a long time and until he started staying out all night and sleeping all day. One night he was on his bed and started crying and said he needed help and admitted the heroin use. He tried cold turkey about 4 different times never worked. Went to detox 3 times but this was after he learned about Suboxones. That is when the vicious cycle started. Suboxone, heroin, suboxone, heroin, on and on. Finally after the last time in detox he got out on Friday and stayed high all weekend and on Wednesday flew to treatment 1000 miles away from home. He had been making arrangements for about a month with a facility. If he had been home he would of walked out the 2nd day he said. In my opinion only and not to be taken the wrong way I believe suboxone is just for detox only and weaned off it while in detox. My son did that and he said it was the worse withdrawals he has ever experienced way worse than the heroin. It lasted way over a month and he was miserable. Said he will never get on them again and I believe him. He is on the Viriotol shot now and 123 days clean with a couple small hiccups. If it keeps you off the heroin and it is saving your life then continue to take them but they are really not for long term substitute to heroin addiction. In my opinion again. I am only suggesting that maybe you should seek treatment to wean yourself off them for your health and sanity. My opinion only. I just think they are very addictive and dangerous. I'm sure there are many people who will disagree with me but just my opinion. God Bless you and if you continue on them that is your choice and no one else. I know people have done it and I don't know if you pay for them or your insurance does but to each his own. It is something to think about Paul. Good luck and many prayers your way. Sissybrat

            • #8
              Anthony, Welcome to kill the heroin epidemic nationwide's addiction and recovery forum and you my friend are CLEAN, don't let anyone tell you differently man! Blindlove, i'm with Mandy lol that was The Best! Personally Paul, I'm not a huge fan of the long term use of MAT so I would advise you to look further into counseling and life course to try to better learn how to deal with a sober life but far be it from me to tell you to get off of them if they're the only thing that works for you.. i just tend to think that deep down we are all capable of staying clean on our own but no judgement here because I haven't proven the theory yet myself Just do the very best that you can, know that you're worth it and we do recover, we're all glad that you're here sharing with us and congratulations man
              I am the Editor and Forum Co-Moderator for Kill The Heroin Epidemic Nationwide and Heroin News.

              All opinions are my own and don't necessarily represent that of Kill the Heroin Epidemic Nationwide. I am not a medical professional and nothing I say should constitute or replace medical advice provided by a professional.

              Comment


              • #9
                Hey Anthony!!
                Yes, in my book if you are on Suboxone and taking it as prescribed, you are clean! I watched a video posted by William, Publisher of this website and he made a great point about MAT, which many do not understand. A lot of people think that people choose MAT because they want to catch a buzz (in some cases-that may be true) but, if you are taking heroin on a daily basis...you will NOT get high from Suboxone or Methadone. I was using fentadope (heroin mixed with fentanyl) on a daily basis for years, and when I got to rehab and was put on Subutex for detox, I did not feel high at all!! I wish more people would understand this concept. If you are worried about relapsing after getting tapered off of Suboxone, I suggest getting on Vivitrol, my doctor explained it to me as an "end to an end" in the MAT world. Keep up the good work, sending support your way!

                Comment


                • #10
                  Hi I know this is an old thread and I found it via google and I signed up because I really wanted to add my personal perspective on suboxone.
                  I absolutely agree that whatever helps someone function normally, whatever gets someone out of a dreaded cycle and whatever let's someone live a normal and (somewhat) healthy life... is fantastic and by all means do whatever it takes.
                  Having said this I want to add that everyone is different and everyone has different problems with their addiction and why their addiction is a problem in the first place... addictions on their own are not a problem.. we can all have addictions to different things.. sometimes these addictions have very little effect or impact on your life and therefor not be a problem that warrents needing any action.
                  However for me... suboxone was not clean.
                  For me there were 3 problems I had with heroin addiction.
                  1. I was not myself while high... I was distant, unavailable both emotionally and mentally.. for my partner and family this was difficult.
                  2. I seemed to form no memories whilst high... this I think is related to feeling no emotions, thus I would have large periods of my life that I simply could not remember... this was horrible and whenever I got clean it felt like waking from a nightmare and all that time felt like a fog.. just like any dream all my memories faded and were hard to grasp or remember.. this was one of the worst of the main problems as it literally felt like I was losing out on my life... skipping large chunks of time... and
                  3. I had absolutely zero desire for sex, I couldn't even force myself in to having sex.. I just did not want it at all, with my partner when we were together nor with anyone... the most attractive girl in the world could be throwing themselves at me and I would push them away.. not interested. This is worse than it sounds, as a guy you'd be surprised how much a sex drive gives you general drive to do many things... sex drive motivates you to work out.. to go to parties, to socialise.. to include yourself in society and meet new people.. without it I just didn't want to do anything.. so I sat at home and chain smoked.

                  Anyway.. the reason I say suboxone for me was not clean was because on suboxone.. all those things were the same.. not as intense as heroin but still there.. I still was not emotionally available or present.. I still didn't form memories properly and I still had zero sex drive...
                  So the convenience of not having to "score" and that suboxone was cheaper... didn't mean a lot to me.. all the problems were still there...
                  But as I said, everyone is different and everyone has their reasons why their addiction is a problem so.. I completely understand how to others it's a life saver.
                  For me I had to get completely clean to get my life back.

                  Comment


                  • sissybrat
                    sissybrat commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Thank you JoshJames for sharing your story. It gives me some insight to how my son felt when he was addicted to heroin. Now that he has been clean since Sept 7 2016 he told he has nightmares about his using and thinking how he was and felt. He had to leave over 1000 miles away from home to get sober and went through a 18 month program. When he had to write everything wrong he did to someone it really hit him hard. Now his whole life and attitude has changed. I honestly don't know how long he was on heroin I know he got addicted to opiates after being hospitalized 3 times in one summer ICU and lucky to be alive the doctors said due to 2 motorcycle accidents and appendix surgery. He didn't even
                    start drugs until he was 21 I believe, his father passed away after 10 months of chemo stage 4 cancer and he raced motocross. I have heard trauma leads to some addictions I'm not sure I agree but I he never talked about his dad and I never saw him cry. He loss interest in racing after he died and that is when he got reckless and starting drinking and smoking weed which when he was racing that is the last thing he would do. You need to 100 % out there on those tracks there is no margin for being high or drunk. Anyways he is living far away and I miss him but I will take that over staying clean than coming back here which he has no intention of and getting back in with the heroin addiction which would be a high temptation even though he says he will never go back to that life. He is functioning as a sober and clean life now I thank God and his hard work for that. He was on a rollercoaster of suboxone and heroin was perfectly living a fairly normal life working but once he got money in his pocket it was one time this weekend won't hurt I'll just go back on the suboxone. Found out the hard way it doesn't work that way. When he went through detox he was given Suboxone but weaned off it immediately after 10 days. He said the withdrawals are worse than heroin and now he says any drug to function such as methadone and suboxone are just substitues for heroin. Lots of people say it is saving their lives but I don't believe it is for long term use only for detox. Ok I got carried away on this but I'm glad you had the strength and courage and wanted to change and are now sober. God Bless.Sissybrat

                • #11
                  Josh,

                  Thanks for joining and sharing your experience and perspective. The one thing that I find interesting is that everyone has their own experience and one experience doesn't negate another's. For instance, I know many people who felt completely normal on Suboxone and was able to live a normal life, not feeling the urge for more Suboxone and just used it as medication. Their sex drive was fine and they didn't experience any other symptoms. However, clearly that doesn't discount what you experienced and for you, it didn't feel like you were "normal".

                  But here's an interesting perspective. Take a depressed person for example. A lot of people who take medication for depression don't feel completely normal either and complain about feeling uninterested in conversation or doing anything although they don't feel sad. But most people wouldn't consider them an addict even though if they stopped cold turkey they would experience withdrawal. That's because they are dependent on the medication but not addicted.

                  What you were experiencing with Suboxone could be considered side effects rather than saying you are still an addict. Did you crave your Suboxone in order to feel the way you felt? Or did you just happen to feel that way and wish you didn't?

                  There's no right or wrong answer here, I'm just trying to get different people's perspectives on it.

                  Best wishes,

                  William
                  Publisher of Kill the Heroin Epidemic Nationwide™, Heroin News and the National Alliance of Addiction Treatment Centers.

                  Find a Prescreened Addiction Treatment Center & Drug Rehab Facility

                  Visit our Heroin Addiction & Recovery Blog for daily articles.

                  I do my best to educate myself regarding addiction and recovery related issue, treatment options, etc. however, I am not a medical professional. All opinions are my own and any advice you take from me is at your own risk and discretion

                  Comment

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